-Shishya

“The Lord pervades this whole world and everything that moves in this moving universe.”
(Éçä Upaniñad 1)

And:

“He moves, yet He does not move. He is far and likewise near. He is inside everything and He is outside everything.”
(Éçä Upaniñad 5)

God is the Pervader of All, both of the Soul and the World. Thus, Swamiji said:

“He is the Soul of the whole material universe as well as of the human soul.”
(Satyarth Prakash, Chapter 7)

Therefore, God stands in the same relationship to the Soul and the World as the Soul stands to the Body. It is for this reason that God, like the Soul, can be called “ätman”. Swamiji wrote:

“Ätman (from ät-, 'to pervade') signifies God as ‘the Pervader’ of the Soul as well as the material universe.”
(Satyarth Prakash, Chapter 1)

Thus, we see that “ätman” can be used to signify both God – for He pervades the Soul and the World – and the Soul – for it pervades the Body. And this is how we are to understand the deeper meaning of the passage from the Éçä Upaniñad where it says:

“Whoever beholds all beings in the Self (ätman) and the Self (ätman) in all beings never turns away from Him.”
(Éçä Upaniñad 6)

“Whoever beholds all beings in the Self (ätman)…” uses ‘ätman’ in reference to God as the Pervader of All. All beings exist in God for they are pervaded by Him.

“…and the Self (ätman) in all beings…” uses ‘ätman’ in reference to the Soul as that which pervades each living being.

Therefore, the passage is saying that two things are necessary for liberation, namely (1) realizing God to be the Pervader of All, and (2) realizing that each creature is pervaded by a living Soul. The first is the source of jïäna or knowledge while the second is the source of karma or good works. Together, they are the source of bhakti or devotion, which makes it so that one “never turns away from Him”, either in thought, word or deed.

The fact that ätman is used in the Éçä Upaniñad to refer to both God and the Soul is further substantiated in the following passage:

‘Sunless’ is that region called, covered with a blinding darkness, to which those people who cause harm to the Self (ätman) go at the time of destruction.”
(Éçä Upaniñad 3)

The passage would be meaningless if ätman were here to refer to God, for God cannot suffer at the hand of man. Instead, it means that those who disregard the Soul (ätman) of a living being by causing it harm will be enveloped in the state known as suñupti or deep sleep during the destruction of the cosmos.

-Shishya

Varun: Between the cycles of dissolution and creation, where did atman and prakrti exist? Do they all merge in the Supreme Being in the unmanifest plane? If so can we conclude that Atman and Prakti were created from God or do they just "co-exist" with him upon dissolution cycle?

Shishya: It depends upon whether you're asking about the Traitavada or Advaita view.

Varun: I am more interested in the Traitavada perspective. But if you can answer it from both Traitavada and Advaita that would be helpful.

Shishya: This is how I understand the two positions in regards to your question:

According to Advaita, as you have probably gathered by now, the distinction between God and Soul is ultimately illusionary and based on Avidya by virtue of the process of Adhyaropa. However, the world does exist relative to individualized consciousness. During Pralaya, the unrealized Souls continue to exist, trapped, as it were, in the clutches of Avidya, in the state known as Sushupti, which is most similar to what we experience as Deep Sleep. During this period of time, the individual Soul makes no progress on the path of Dharma, and will be reborn during the next phase of creation in a state fitting to its past experiences. This is to continue until the individual Soul realizes the unity of Atman and Brahman, at which time the individual Soul (Jiva) - from the karmic perspective - ceases to exist, i.e. does not create any new karma, and will completely disappear upon the death of the individual, leaving only Brahman/Atman.

According to Traitavada, the distinction between God and the Soul is real. This is qualified, however, by the notion that God pervades the Soul as well as all creation. Avidya is that which prevents the individual from realizing the all-pervasive nature of God. When Adviya is overcome , the individual Soul attains Moksha, and lives in the consciousness that itself and all creation is filled with and permeated by the Divine (Jivanmukti, i.e. 'Salvation while Living'). Upon death, such an individual attains a state of consciousness known as Turiya, sometimes referred to as Superconsciouness (Videhamukti, i.e. 'Salvation after Death'). The Soul continues to exist separate from God, experiencing Divine Ananda or Bliss, and can move about in what is called the Anandamayakosha or Sheath of Bliss. It can still perceive the many worlds of this cosmos, and can travel unhindered to any corner of the galaxy. Also, the Soul continues to create karma for itself, though of a much higher and refined nature than that which we create here on earth. Upon Pralaya, the realized Soul enters a state known as Turiyatita, where its consciousness has only one object, i.e. God alone. It is in this state that it remain until the next phase of creation begins. After this, it will take birth in a place and body suited to its nature.

Varun: As always, thanks for the clarification, however, for realized souls or unrealized souls, where do they exist after dissolution of the univerise. In your explaination above, the realized soul remains in Turiyatita state during dissolution, but where does the soul exisit? Does it exist seperate from God in the unmaifested plane? What is the state of the unrealized souls during dissolution?

Shishya: You question is not as simple as it may seem. Therefore bear with me through the following response. Hopefully it will lead to the answer you are looking for.

At the time of dissolution, each individual Soul is either in the state of bondage or in the state of liberation. Either condition inheres in the causal body (karana sharira) surrounding each Soul. The causal body of a bound Soul is marked by ignorance (avidya), negative karma and lust (kaama). The causal body of a liberated Soul is marked by wisdom (vidya), positive karma and devotion (bhakti). This makes a tremendous difference in the state in which one perceives oneself during pralaya.

Now, why do I say 'perceives oneself'? Because all Souls, whether liberated or bound, exist in God at all times. God is all-pervasive, and this is true whether the cosmos is in a state of manifestation, preservation or dissolution. There is no moment when anything is ever is 'outside' of God. It is merely the perception of the Soul (arising from ignorance, negative karma and lust) that gives it this appearance.

When the process of dissolution begins, the first thing to 'devolve' is this material plane of existence. 'Behind' or 'beyond' this material plane exist subtle planes or dimensions of being which are composed of the material cause of manifestation (matter/prakriti) in it's subtle (sukshma) state. Fortunately, we have a subtle body (sukshma sharira) which corresponds to this plane of being. However, this, too, will eventually 'devolve' in the process of dissolution, revealing the causal plane, which in turn will revert to that stage where prakriti is in it's original state. In this way, the material world as we know it shall be 'destroyed'.

However, the Soul is also equipped with a causal body (karana shariram) which carries it's karmic impressions (good or bad sanskaars, etc.) as well as it's state of knowledge (avidya/vidya) and emotional disposition (kaama/bhakti).

Now, in the case of a bound Soul, whose causal body is maked by ignorance, impious deeds and lustful desires, it will find itself incapable of perceiving anything. It will 'see' only a great void, and will fall into a state of consciousness which is referred to as shushupti, which is like a deep sleep. All the while it resides in the unmanifest prakriti, in a state of stasis, so to speak, and will remain so until the next phase of creation begins.

In the case of a liberated Soul, however, whose causal body is marked by wisdom, pious deeds and love towards all, it will be gripped by the direct and intuitive realization of God's all-pervasive nature. This experience is actually offered to all Souls, yet only those who have prepared themselves for it, clearing away the veil of ignorance, impiety and desire, can experience it. The liberated Soul who has done the proper preparatory work will be raised to the state of consciousnes referred to as turiyatita, where it will have God as its sole object of contemplation. It, too remains in the unmanifest prakriti, but in an indescribably elevated state of blissful communion with the Divine Spirit by which it is pervaded.

Both types of Souls - the bound and the liberated alike - remain pervaded by God at all times. And they both remain 'within' prakriti in it's most subtle state. Yet the wisdom gained by the pious Soul enables it to enjoy the bliss of holy communion during pralaya, while the impious Soul will experience only darkness.

Therefore, the most direct answer to your question, "Where does the liberated/bound Soul exist during pralaya or dissolution?" is, to use the very words of Swamiji: In God.

The original discussion can be viewed here:

http://aryasamaj.forumwise.com/aryasamaj-thread612.html

I wish everyone out there a happy Diwali and Rishi Nirvaan!

Krinvanto Vishwam Aryam!

Satyam Eva Jayate!

 

rÉiÉÉåÅprÉÑSrÉÌlÉÈ´ÉårÉxÉÍxÉÎ®È xÉ kÉqqÉïÈ ||1|1|2||
yato‘bhudayaniùçreyasasiddhiù sa dharmmaù

I.1.1. Dharma is that from which results the attainment of the supreme good.

And what is our true essence? Behind all of the cultural façades, behind the sectarian creeds and dogmatic doctrines, we are eternal souls, journeying, supported by the Grace of God, through this manifest world with the sole aim of doing good to one another.

Terms like ‘Hindu’, ‘Muslim’, ‘Christian’ etc. mean nothing to the eternal soul. How could they? How could the eternal soul be dependent upon the temporal appearance of a Krishna, a Mohammad, or a Christ for his beatitude? The soul is eternal, and needs no mediator before God. In like wise, terms like ‘white’ and ‘black’, ‘wealthy’ and ‘poor’, etc. mean nothing whatsoever to the eternal soul.

The eternal soul does not and cannot belong to a religion, a race, a nationality or a social class. The eternal soul is one thing and one thing only: aryaa, i.e. noble. The nobility of the soul comes from God and transcends all boundaries of mental origin, religious or otherwise.

The Arya Samaj is, therefore, neither a religion, a racial grouping nor a nationalist movement. The Arya Samaj is a spiritual movement composed of individuals who have recognized their own true nature and who have dedicated themselves to helping man strip away the layers of mental conditioning which have accumulated over the centuries, clouding his vision of the Truth and leading him to perform acts of hate and aggression in the name of 'religion'.

I therefore call on all Aryas of this generation to spread peace and harmony everywhere among mankind by bringing their fellow men and women the message of Truth.

-Shishya

-Shishya

-Shishya

-Shishya